God

[megamushroom at College]

Simply, do you believe in him/her, and if you do, do you believe in the fables, the gospel, and indeed the bible.

[Nailog]

Simply, yes.

I do, however, like how you attached "fables" to "bible" in that second part. Nice touch.

One could argue that dinosaurs are the "fable" of the new age.

[megamushroom]

they could be, but there is proof they existed.....

[Xenith]

Guest-megamushroom said:

Simply, do you believe in him/her, and if you do, do you believe in the fables, the gospel, and indeed the bible.

i think that all humans, since they have a higher intellect than other animals, were just born with the instinct of it in their minds, just like people/animals learn how to stand and walk, it's kind of like some sort of programming, but of course we're lead to believe in god so we don't think about how meaningless our lives really are.

as for the bible i think it's just a book that shows us how to live our lives,

i don't believe in a god who created earth with mystical powers and is watching over us, but i know that something created us, and something created it (god if you must), the sad truth is that we're too small and humans probably won't live long enough to find out, by the way i heard that dinosaurs lived only to the age of 30, which leads me to think, that because of evolution we adapt to live much longer,

another interesting fact, did you guys know that in the original bibles there were pictures of flying saucers?

[IsmAvatar]

I'm an agnostic. A skeptic. A stickler to science and proof. I have no 'beliefs' or 'faith'. I consider God to be just another theory behind our creation, and what we claim to be His words (aka Morals) are suggestions on how to live ones life in order for one to stay out of trouble.
What I find interesting about religion is the fact that we have records for where most, if not all, of them started, and how they came to be the way they are today. For example, in one tribe, certain diseases were found to exist quite frequently in the foreskin of the penis. As such, circumcision was introduced, and indeed did away with a good majority of those diseases. Since they didn't know what a disease was back then, or how cells worked - we associated it with some kind of supernatural result. Another problem was that men would get a woman pregnant and then leave her (sound familiar?) to fend for herself against the crual monsters of the wilderness. As such, the sage of the tribe decided to create something we now know as Marriage, in which the man is required to be married to a woman before he gets her pregnant. Of course, there was no breaking off the marriage - it was obligation.
Nowadays, we have technology which allows us to fully understand and prevent these problems. Religion is outdated. Except for the marriage idea. In today's society, those evil monsters of the forest are now replaced by the evil monsters of society - known as money (which we seem to worship more than theists worship their God).

The thing about science is that it's all proven stuff, else it's labeled as a theory. Big Bang THEORY (with current technology, we are shown that it is very likely, but still just a theory), THEORY of Evolution (now proven to some degree). As for the proven stuff, you're welcome to doubt it - that's your own loss. You've probably just not seen enough evidence. The reason we almost faithfully believe science is because, the more you look into it, the more you find it to be true. If possible (eg, law - and mental capacity - permitting), you can find all the evidence you need. The proof is there. The reason why being skeptic is your loss in that matter is because you'd be wasting your time looking into something just to find out that it's true after all. But hey, I respect your decision to be skeptic.

Xenith posed an interesting philosophy which I've been looking into myself (probably long before it even came to his mind). We're just born with the instinct of it in our minds.
Let's examine the statement. What is our mind (without going too deep, lol. You can find some incomprehensible stuff there which may lead you to existancialism)? The thought process of our BRAIN. Now I'm going to preach some Jethro Tull-ism to you. "In the beginning, man created god." (Tull 1) What posessed man to create this god? And do animals believe in this god? What sets humans apart from other animals that makes us so much more intelligent? If you answered "Our brains are different", you are correct (note, different, not bigger. Scientific research shows that some of our ancestors may have had bigger brains and were still dumber than us. With all due respect, of course). There is a piece of our brain (I'll try not to go into too much of the organization of the brain, as I'm sure it's over your head, and it's over mine. I believe this piece is located somewhere in the front) which gives us something called Foresight. All this does is allow us to see the results of our actions. No, it's not some Prophet kinda thing, but I'm sure that there's probably some way a wire can get crossed or some nerve ending can spark to allow such, lol. From this, develops Philosophy. From Philosophy springs forth God. Voila for human instinct.

The god i've seen has allowed man to do some pretty nasty things. And I certainly don't agree with his 'scriptures'. Another thing I can't say agrees with me is the idea of "living for death". I'd much rather enjoy life as it comes, in case there really is no afterlife. And if there is, oh well. Hope said God really is the "Good Guy" after all and decides to let me in.

Whereas Atheism is faithfully believing (sic) that there is no god. But I respect them because they don't go around promoting faith and killing in the name of G or J (whose name, last time I checked, specifically said to 'love thy neighbor' and 'shall not kill'), nor creating any laws which tell us how to live our lives based on these delusions (live and let die, y'know. Let St. Peter determine your fate himself. If God really wanted someone dead, he'd shoot em with a lightning bolt or something). Another one I respect is the one I think Xenith noted. The Universalist God, the theory that some supernatural being created the Universe (that theory had better be self supporting -- who created this guy such that he could create our universe in the first place? And to say he created himself is no more balogne than the Big Bang theory without the Multiverse theory), because then it's only creation; no "you must live your life this way" stuff.

However, I must admit. I do believe in a being more powerful than ourselves that reaches to the edges of the universe. We call it Gravity. Oh, and another one. Mother Nature. But this one's interesting. I only believe what there is proof of, and agree that it is likely that something will happen as science states the likelihood thereof. EG: By cutting down trees, mother nature will leash out on the beings of the earth. True. By cutting down trees, we are creating fields (great for strong winds, hurricanes, tornadoes). We are also producing more Carbon Dioxide than the trees (which are now cut down) can replace them with Oxygen. There goes O-Zone. Global Warming. There goes Ice caps. Flooding. Etc.

On a final note of Religion, Delusion, and Cults. Mostly, the idea of "Live and Let Die". You're welcome to believe whatever you want, or not believe at all. Especially if it makes you happy. But to go around forcing others to believe it and to punish people who don't follow it's laws - that's a no-no.[/li][li] Laws are meant to protect people, not to prosecute them. This is the way our fore-fathers created this great country (referring to USA. If you're not living here, just listen. It still applies for you mostly, you just don't have the luxory of this history). Somewhere down the line though, we decided that morals were more important (sound familiar?) than freedom, and "Welcome to Salem, Massechussets. Home of the witchcraft trials". Next in line, the "Red Scare" (enter: In God We Trust). Along with a few other trivial laws which are probably still religion-based (eg: Why is it illegal to be gay?).

[/li][li] I like to dabble in Wiccan and Psychic arts. This is for my own happiness - my own pleasure - my own fun. Shall we call this Recreational Religion? One thing I'd never do, though, is press this on other people (Name: Government Religion?), or try to get any laws passed requiring people to follow it, or do anything stupid like kill someone over it. But please, a little tolerance would be appreciated. I might, every once in a while, encourage someone to try it out (you never know, it might make you happy - God forbid), or slightly coerce someone to try it out (slightly. No going overboard with rather harsh threats or raised voices "YOU DEVIL WORSHIPPER! BOW DOWN BEFORE GOD OR DIE!!!" - er, nice God you got there. At least the devil doesn't have any people threatening you to worship him or threatening your life.)

On a final note, this post is very long, and very Radical. It may also make some religious folk (hey, if religion makes you happy, more power to you) very angry. As such, since I speak somewhat against God (Heresy, they say. You may notice I never directly attack God), these religious folk (the ones who also believe in a devil, since God would never let such cruel things to happen to us here on earth) might say that I worship the devil, and do the devil's work. Let me assure you, this is very false. I do not even believe in a devil, let alone worship him. Besides, life is rarely a black (devil) and white (god) thing. Even though I might not be following white, doesn't mean I follow black. It simply means i've probably chosen either a gray-scale, or a slightly more colourful path (heh). I think I like the colour blue the most. A soothing colour (psychologically proven). Because that's what this world really needs. Soothing love, rather than hatred, war, and violence.

[Xenith]

when i was a kid my dad used to tell me stories about god, but i always hated the fact that i would have to obey god's rules, it just annoyed me,

i used to read some bible stories and they were really entertaining, like how there was this guy who god told to sacrifice his child to him, and the guy almost did it and then god stops him before he does, it and it was all just to see if the guy was loyal to him

and there was this other story about how the devil came to god and said this guy wasn't loyal to god, and then god says to the devil that no matter what happens to the guy, that he will always be loyal to god, and then he goes to prove it, by killing his animals his crops and even his family, and then god says to the devil "see he's still loyal" and then the story just ends there. ;D

[IsmAvatar]

Exactly. Just like the fantasy books like LOTR. It belongs in the fiction section.

I've read [The Bible]. I must admit, it's good. Good reading material. Can't say I believe it.
Now replace the words 'The Bible' with 'Lord of the Rings'.
eh?

[yahn]

I believe that there is a God simply because I can't imagine there ever being nothing, something always had to be here. I can't see that all of the sudden the universe just decided to be here. I don't really believe that God actually said let there be light and there was light and is directly behind everything. I think that God is indirectly behind everything. I'm also catholic, even though I disagree with a lot of the things the bible says about Jesus. I don't think God is directly responsible for any miracles, it just doesn't make sense to me. If God were to have son to come here and preform miracles, then why didn't he just make a sign in the sky that says I am who I am ? I think that would have been a lot more convincing. I don't believe that you have to believe in God to go to heaven either. A lot of people just can't believe anything without proof and I really don't think that the God I believe to be so great would send them to an eturnity of Hell over. I don't really understand why God made us and didn't just put us in heaven in the first place. I mean the story of Adam and Eve is suppose to be a story, so you can't really believe that (or anything before chapter 13 in Exodus for that mater). Why would God punish me for something 2 people did thousands of years ago? And I am also a strong believer of evolution, so this whole Adam and Eve story doesn't make any sense to me at all, it actually supports my little theory that God is indirect rather then what most people belive him to be (direct).

Well I ended up rambleing on more then I should have.

[IsmAvatar]

yup. Like I said, there's a bunch of theories for things unexplained. I normally just take them as theories - as I need no definate answer.
And then some people like to stick with a particular theory and believe it. Like how scientists appear to be sticking to the Big Bang theory and the Theory of Evolution. Whatever floats your boat.

"I don't believe that you have to believe in God to go to heaven either."
Heh, now I have a better chance of getting into Heaven, should it exist. That's somewhat reassuring.

Unfortunately (I say that because I don't doubt it would be cool to go to heaven rather than just cease to be after death), it's still not very convincing. Considering, after death, your 5 senses fail. No hearing, no sight to perceive your surroundings or communicate. No feeling to perceive pleasure. No brain, there goes memory, foresight, mathematics (how much I cherish that ability). I mean, what's left to enjoy if you have nothing to enjoy it with? The closest I can come is Thought, which is probably associated with some area of the brain anyways. But even if it wasn't, an eternity of thought? eesh. It can't make you feel depressed, anxious, happy, etc. because those are all associated to chemical-brain dependancies.


I like the multiverse theory better. This states that there's muliple universes, all with different laws of physics. Whenever there's a blackhole, it starts a new universe (I guess all the crushed matter goes there - good reason behind the big bang theory)
Another theory, which I came up with, I call Infinite Time. Which states that the universe wasn't created. Pretty simple. And, if you don't like it, you can go into existancialism. If the universe wasn't created, why is it here/why are we here? answer: It isn't/We aren't.
o.O

Welp, you can believe whatever you want. One thing's clear - if we don't start helping each other soon, we're gonna kill each other off, or mother nature's gonna have quite a bout with us. And wars over "My god's bigger than your's" are silly and unconstructive.

[Megamushroom]

Wow, long replies ey!!

We all seem to have prett much the same views on everything, so not much debating is going on

My view is pretty much a mixture of all of yours.

Did you know, the bible is an exact replica (near enough anyway) of the stories of a previous religion, hundreds of years before jesus?

The english are given the impression that All americans are god fearing citizens, this is especially portrayed in films, and to hear you all non believing, is a shock, lol.

[IsmAvatar]

I have a theory that if you're involved in a computers (more so than the norm), you're more likely to be philosophical and/or hold atheistic tendancies.

This theory seems to hold true a lot. I'm not sure why. Would be interesting if we could find the link.

Computers - the anti-god. lol.

[yahn]

Its probly has something to do with the more money you have the less chances there are you believe in a God. (Well I don't know if thats true, but I do know that the percent of famous God believing people is less than that of non-famous people.) And I know that the percent of God believing people in underdeveloped countries is higher than that of developed ones. Its probably because the more you know about science the less you believe in God.

Well I have a question for all the non believers. Do you think anything of Jesus? I mean there is more information written about Jesus then any other person ever, so something had to be special about him. Do you have any interesting theories why so many people believe him to be God? I mean if he wasn't God you have to atleast credit him for something, I mean almost 2000 years after his death and billions of people, more then 17% of the planent, worships him as God.

[Xenith]

yahn said:

Its probly has something to do with the more money you have the less chances there are you believe in a God. (Well I don't know if thats true, but I do know that the percent of famous God believing people is less than that of non-famous people.) And I know that the percent of God believing people in underdeveloped countries is higher than that of developed ones. Its probably because the more you know about science the less you believe in God.

Well I have a question for all the non believers. Do you think anything of Jesus? I mean there is more information written about Jesus then any other person ever, so something had to be special about him. Do you have any interesting theories why so many people believe him to be God? I mean if he wasn't God you have to atleast credit him for something, I mean almost 2000 years after his death and billions of people, more then 17% of the planent, worships him as God.

i thought he was worshipped as the son of god, honestly there is evidence in the many religions that he did exist and we are basing our years b.c and a.d after him so he had to exist, it's just that we'll never know if he truly was the son of god or just one of those bums on the street who scream that they're jesus.

[IsmAvatar]

I figure he's probably a wiccan who proclaimed that he was the son of God. But there's arguments in a number of ways in that. 1) Aren't we all God's children? 2) Well, what's a son? Is God capable of fulfilling the Father definition (eg: related by blood - what blood?)? And is God so cynical that he couldn't raise his own son?
I still doubt his existance. So many religious people, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them just decided to make their own account. And why a wiccan? Cuz he did all that magic stuff, miracles and all. The Christians accept him simply because he did miracles. The Jews don't because he didn't fulfill any of Prophecies defining the Messiah. There's also something about trivia that he had to answer that he got right 100% of the time. Now, I query that. What's to say he didn't get his hands on the answers to the trivia, and memorized them? And if the answers are well hidden, how would so many know if he answered the questions correctly?

Its probably because the more you know about science the less you believe in God.

Lol, I coulda told you that one. I also know why, too. Take diseases for example. Like the Black Plague. People didn't know how they were transmitted, so they figured it must be some supernatural force (eg: Apocolypse). Now that we have the technology, we can tell that it was disease/viral cells embedding themselves in our bodies and killing us. As technology advances, we keep explaining the 'unexplained' - mind you, the religious people seem to enjoy marking anything unexplained as a work of God. That is, until it's proven by science. Take also, "the world is the center of the universe", and everything revolves around it. So much for that idea. At first, the religious people condemned the proof and books (it was on the 'forbidden' list). Once it got out, though, they had to abandon the thought. Now it lays in the stack of discarded manuscripts, cuz the religious people don't want you to see one false prophecy and assume the entire book is a false prophet.

Its probly has something to do with the more money you have the less chances there are you believe in a God.

ROFL. I bet that can be disproved in a second. I ain't rich, I can tell you that much. And judging by how much power the religious folk seem to have, I'd think they might have more money or something. Speaking of money, doesn't it seem like Money has replaced God? It's worshipped more than God, anyways.

We base our years (gregorian) on him (his death, to be precise) because of religious influence. We've had at least 2 other calendars before this one. I'm sure you're familiar with the Mayan calendar. Also note, the Sabboth. 7 days to a week. Every 7th day we can't do any work (including collecting sticks). Originally, you would be stoned (to have stones thrown at one) to death if you did. But thanks to Jesus' Death, we don't have to worry about the punishment anymore (shall we celebrate Jesus' Death? What a morbidly ghoulish idea).

[Camo Pachyderm]

There are a lot of things here that I disagree with, and a very few that I agree with. Forgetting these for the time being however, I'd like to make some points that you guys may or may not have already thought of. As I've stated elsewhere on these forums, I do not want to argue theology. This post is meant simply to give you ideas.

For example, in one tribe, certain diseases were found to exist quite frequently in the foreskin of the penis. As such, circumcision was introduced, and indeed did away with a good majority of those diseases. Since they didn't know what a disease was back then, or how cells worked - we associated it with some kind of supernatural result.

There are at least two perspectives from which to view this issue. The first and most obvious is the one that you've already mentioned; that a lot of religious actions are simply 'quick-fixes' from hundreds or thousands of years ago for things that the people of that time didn't have enough knowledge to understand, so they therefore made them into things that a "made-up G-d" told them to do. The other, and apparently less obvious, approach is that G-d (the "not-made-up one" ) put those problems there as, for lack of a better word, 'discouragement' for doing or not doing those things. For example: circumcision. Your take on it is that there were health problems involved with not having one, so people decided that G-d wanted them to do it. The other take is that G-d wanted them to do it, so He associated health problems with not having one, in order to encourage people to do it. Food for thought.

In my religion, we learn that G-d always leaves room for doubt. There's always a 'scientific explanation' to everything that happens. For example: the splitting of the Red Sea. There have been studies that show that the area where the Israelites were supposed to have passed through is actually fairly shallow. It has been found that, when the conditions are right, (the wind is blowing the right way and with the correct amount of force, etc.) that a 'pathway' can actually 'open up' and that you could technically walk across. So it's quite possible that happened for them, no? Maybe G-d simply doesn't exist and when the Israelites passed through the Red Sea, that part of the Sea was still shallow, the wind was blowing the right way, all the conditions were right, and it simply parted as a curious coincidence of Nature! See, there ya' go; a perfectly plausible way for that 'great miracle' to have happened, and no G-d involved! There is always a way to 'get around' believing in G-d. Never mind that the chances are probably in the millions that all those conditions were correct at precisely the time when they got there; there is still that possibility, right?

I have a theory that if you're involved in a computers (more so than the norm), you're more likely to be philosophical and/or hold atheistic tendancies.

This theory seems to hold true a lot. I'm not sure why. Would be interesting if we could find the link.

Computers - the anti-god. lol.

I would venture the opinion that you guys are welcome to, and most likely will, disagree with. Rather than people becoming atheists or getting atheistic tendencies by being involved in computers, I would suggest that atheists and people with atheistic tendencies are attracted to computers. The most probable reason that I see for this is the following:

1) Atheists want to feel more 'in control' of themselves and their lives, and that there is a point to their existence, since they don't believe that another 'supernatural being' is.
2) Computers allow one to feel as 'in control' over something as it is pretty much possible to feel. You can get a computer to do almost anything you want!

Therefore, a lot of people involved in computers are atheists.