RPG Toolkit

[AltiusBimm]

One of—probably THE—most popular privately-developed RPG development systems on the web is the RPG Toolkit
go to www.rpgtoolkit.com/
which will take you to the real location, yukon.sytes.net/

I recommend reading the charming history of the toolkit at
yukon.sytes.net/background.html

The RPG Toolkit is the first game programming for Windows ever used by my best friend. (in mid-to-late 2000) That was apparently version one! My friend was impressed when he much later saw me have version two. (Though by that time we were both using the RPG Maker 2000, and I may even have started with Game Maker then.)

Now, it’s splendid to see that version three is available; I’m downloading it as I type this. Judging by the screen shot, it may be able to equal or out-do Game Maker—it appears to have some amount of isometric mapmaking support, we’ll see.
;D

[Noadi]

I used to use RPG Toolkit and it's got some good features but flexibility is an issue.

Version 2 is quite stable but Version 3 is still beta so it is very very buggy. However version 3 just went open source so if you have advanced programming skills you can modify it any way you like. this also means that version 3 is free and always will be which is a small advantage over Game Maker. Version 3 also allows isometric boards but doesn't work very well in the current release.

You have several options on menu and battle systems, you can use the default systems, write your own in the Toolkit's scripting language RPG Code, or you can write a dll plugin battle or menu system. You can also write dlls for other things including extending the Toolkit's scripting language.

It has it's good and bad points, you should really try it out to make a decision. I'd recommend using version 2 if you're serious about making a working game at least for a few more months before a more stable release of version3.

IA: mae = make (is your 'k' sticky?)

[mayhem]

If you want to take my advice (and my advice is definitely dont) then stick with game maker! It may be alot harder and all the rest, but it gives you those programming skills that allow to go to the next level in game design
Not that the RPG toolkit doesn't do that, it's just that game maker was designed for learning, so it remains the best teacher if you get what i mean...

[Noadi]

Yes my K is sticky I need a new keyboard.

I've spent quite a bit of time working with the toolkit and it's scripting language is quite advanced. There are no principals of programming that game maer uses that the toolkit doesn't. Not to mention that if you know how to program you can modify the enginge to do whatever you want.

To say Game Maer is better is really narrowminded. They do different things and are for different types of people wanting to make games.

Also no offence to Mark but game maker is only good for learning how to design games. If you want to learn how to really make games you have to learn a real programming language. However that takes quite a while, my c++ skills still aren't up the the level where I could code a complex game myself (though I could probably do a breakout clone or something simple like that if I tried). I love Shaman it's really a labor of love for me but I realize that no matter how good it is the school I want to go to won't take it seriously because I used game maker not c++ or vb.

[MBitt]

Nodai has a point, they both are very simalar. The biggest difference I can see is that GM allows for a larger varity of game types, but has less support for RPG types.
The school in FL looks for creative abilities not the Language or platform. All they can say is no. Having more on your resume will help sway things your way. I hope you make it there someday.

[Noadi]

Well the only obstacle between me and school right now is money. I'm going to go there I just can't afford to right now because I still have some large loans from my year of college that's really keeping me from saving up much money.

And I really don't want to discourage GM users who want to go into game design. If that's your goal though you need to learn at least the basics of c++ before you enter school for it. But thankfully creativity is the most important aspect of it so read whatever you can on game design and also on writing fiction (and of course read plenty of fiction). Even if your skills as a writer aren't good write stories, it's more important that you can come up with an interesting story than how well it's written anyway.

[AltiusBimm]

Wow, I sure started a posting surge!

MBitt said:

The biggest difference I can see is that GM allows for a larger varity of game types, but has less support for RPG types.

That’s exactly how I feel, and it goes beyond simply the way in which the RPG TK is limited to doing RPGs—it is limited to doing certain kinds of RPGs, the fact that GM is able to do any game type has been endlessly useful to me for the purpose of making RPGs.
(Not just making the other types of games.)

[the_Lonely_One]

Noadi said:

.....If you want to learn how to really make games you have to learn a real programming language. H owever that takes quite a while, my c++ skills still aren't up the the level where I could code a complex game myself (though I could probably do a breakout clone or something simple like that if I tried)......

to noadi:

the games with game maker are not games?.
if not what are this things many people are making with GM?.
you can only make games at a c++ level of programming?.
i dont think so, if you want to make a game at c++ or other similiar language, with the features you can have with game maker, you will get old. c++ is a general purpose language, that means that you can make a lot of thing but with a LOT of work. make somewhat complex games with c++ or similar is almost crazy.
suppose you are programming a game with c++, with the time , and after many hour of work a frustration, maybe you will realize that ,will be more easy , the game programming if first you build first, some tool or tools to make in a easiest way your game. at game designers do. when they want to make a game first they must have some tools to help in their develpment.
that is game maker., if you dont want to use game maker, then you will have to walk almost the same way than Mark Overmars. every feature of game maker are a lot of problems you will not face.
conclussion:if you want to make better "real" games that ones with game maker, then first you must have a better game maker

thanks.

edit:gm and the rpg maker, must not be compared, because, both are at diferent level of specialization.
that means: level c++ > game maker > rpg maker .

[Noadi]

I was talking about people who are serious about game design as a career, not hobby game makers. If it's just a hobby, it makes no difference what you use to make the game. But professional companies don't use game maker, they use programming languages and they want their designers to have a working knowledge of coding even if they don't do any coding. I use game maker because while I do know c++ my knowledge of programming hasn't quite gotten to the point where I could make my own game engine.

I love game maker it works welll for what I'm doing but I have no illusions about the fact that if I want to do this proffesionally that knowing game maker will do me no real good when it comes to getting a job. I already have a pro job doing game art but I want to take it further that's why I'm going to go back to school for game design when I save up the money.

By the way you won't get old doing it with code either, I spend a lot of time on the pixelation forum and many people there are programmers as well as artists and have released games done solely with c++ or VB, granted it took longer but the games are solid and very very good.

[MBitt]

Wrong, 3d Gamestudio has produced about 2 dozen marketed games, some you have seen in your local stores over the past few years. There are alot of games on the market that were constructed with a 2nd level programing language, I am sorry GM is a third level, 1st level is assembler, 2nd level is C++ and VB, then comes the next level of programing.
Also the game companies use many programs to get to the end product not just a language.
GM and RPG2000 have limitations, but they give you the opening to bring in other resources just like others out there.
Nothing is easy in this world. Even if you make the greatest game in the world you still have to market it.
You just have to believe in what you are doing and go forth, but be willing to learn, modify, and overcome the problems out there.
The definition of a problem is "The difference between what is and what should have been."

[Noadi]

But 3d Gamestudio is a pro level piece of software, that's why the pro licence costs $900 and the scripting language might as well be it's own programming language it's so in depth, also c++ can be used in it as well which I'm sure is what most pro developers use since it give the most flexible use.

I know software companies do use engines like that (well all pro games are done with engines for very good reason). But trust me the people who built those games know c++, you can't get into the game industry without being able to program (except as an artist or stuff like marketing). I'm not saying there's anything wrong with game engines or specifically game maker, I was trying to point out that people who want to get into making game proffesionally need to learn much much more than what game maker can teach you.

[MBitt]

Unfortunately you are right. They need to have a working, maybe even more than working, knowledge of many programs and languages. They need graphics, all types, 3d, 2d, etc. They need music and the understanding of it. They need languages and programs, then after all of that they need a story line and yes the worse thing of all they need some talent.
I saw your sight and looked over your work, you have the talent. Now just believe in yourself.
Ok so it's hard, what isn't?

[IsmAvatar]

That's what a team is for
get a person to be the programmer, get one to be the graphical artist, get one to do the storyline, etc.
That's what I did, and my team works for free, since we're all good friends. Of course, once I start making money, I'll give them a bit of the profit, just because I like to give people stuff, and they did a great deed for me.

Get your favorite boxed RPG (like Morrowind) and look at the credits. It's not one person making the entire game, it's a team, with several people. The person who gets the team together and commands everyone on what they are to do is the project leader. A lot of times, the project leader is the programmer, but for most successful games, the project leader is a different person.

Now, if you want a job that has little work involved, but has the greatest pay, be the project leader

[Noadi]

Of course pro games have many people working on them, it takes much less time to produce a game that way. No one produces pro level games now with only one person, or even a small team, the teams making pro games are very large even for small games like for cell phones. The company I'm an artist for has about a dozen artists, even more programmers, several designers, and I'm not sure how many sound editors, marketing people, etc.

Working with a large team makes it even more important for the lead designer to have a fair bit of knowledge about all the other parts of the development.

Like for my team even though it's very small, I'm the designer and lead artist and coder, I have 2 other artists and a music composer working with me, now I obviously have a good knowledge of art, design, and coding but I also play percussion, can read music (which unfortunately way to many drummers can't), and have some basic knowledge of music composition. So I can discuss the composition of Shaman's music with my composer in a knowledgable way which makes it much easier to work with him to get the type of music that works well with the game.

Well this has gotten quite off topic but I think the discussion is actually quite useful.

[MatrixQuare]

"Now, it’s splendid to see that version three is available; I’m downloading it as I type this. Judging by the screen shot, it may be able to equal or out-do Game Maker—it appears to have some amount of isometric mapmaking support, we’ll see." - GM 5.2 has Isometric map support, and I doubt RPG Maker can out-do GM for many specific reasons:
-No MMORPG support.
-Pre-built system lacks the flexibility of creating a RPG system from scratch. Unlike GM where you can code a RPG Engine from scratch using GML. Yes, I know there's RPGcode, but it's not as complex nor as powerful.
-Limited Graphic support (last time I checked, version 2 only allws 4 blocks of tiles for the character, which greatly limits the size of your character and the details.)
-Can't create a Zelda style RPG (aka Action RPG) without some serious coding.

Granted, it's MUCH easier to create an RPG using RPG Toolkit, but I say GM is more POWERFUL.

"Version 2 is quite stable but Version 3 is still beta so it is very very buggy" - No, 3.01 is already out.